While the replacement bill was bad, Obamacare is completely the Democrats’ fault; only they voted for that train wreck.
But the real question is: why should the federal government be in health care?
Why should the federal government be in health care? The same reason government is involved in education, infrastructure, law enforcement, and defense; because it is too big for individuals to handle, and only by pooling our resources can we take care of those who need it. The same arguments were made against Medicare, but it works well.
“why should the federal government be in health care?”
Constitutionally: it provides for the common welfare. Plus a person with a communicable disease threatens the life of others if that carrier is unable to get treatment because they have no insurance.
Logically: if a pandemic occurs, it benefits the nation that medical care is available to help curtail any further spread of the disease than necessary—this runs both along national defense (if pathogen is terrorist spread) and politically astute with the idea being that the government exists to protect the people.
Economically: it makes sense as it would reduce auto insurance rates since medical would no longer be needed; it would reduce labor costs because employers would no longer need to pay into employee insurance plus it would eliminate the need for workman’s comp, plus it incentivizes companies to build factories here because the cost of insurance is no longer factored into the cost of a product.
Also economically, with single-payer, it allows for negotiating lower health care and prescription costs and would save taxpayers $500 billion a year.
If they were worried about someone without insurance having a communicable disease, then why is there not jail time for not having health insurance? Instead, the penalty is taken out of any potential tax return.
Single payer? What has the federal government gotten involved with and made it better and/or more economical/cheaper? I use private health insurance and every year with Obamacare, my premiums have gone up (up $400/month this year over last year) and coverage has gone down–and co-pays have gone up.
“If they were worried about someone without insurance having a communicable disease, then why is there not jail time for not having health insurance?”
How in the world would that work? You can be without insurance today and be healthy today and come tomorrow have TB. The Minority Report is a fictional movie, it doesn’t exist in reality. Your premise is without merit.
“What has the federal government gotten involved with and made it better and/or more economical/cheaper?”
Mail service. The VA. Social Security. Medicare. MedicAid. The military. The Interstate highway system. Federal Deposit Insurance. The GI Bill. Federal Housing Authority. Consumer Protection.
All programs work on a low overhead (because profit is not a motivation, thus cheaper) and any of the false talking points you wish to use on any of them are just that—false. For example, for every one negative story about the VA, you will find 50+ who love it. There’s no pleasing everybody, especially conservatives who listen to hate TV/radio.
“I use private health insurance and every year with Obamacare, my premiums have gone up (up $400/month this year over last year) and coverage has gone down–and co-pays have gone up.”
There is a baseline of coverage in the ACA where coverage cannot go below. You opted for a premium coverage that is better than the basic. Therefore, you weren’t originally buying into ObamaCare. As for co-pays and deductibles, you can thank the GOP for eliminating the risk corridors which were intended to keep rates from increasing at any substantial rate.
Ok I will clear up several things.
1. The replacement bill was not just bad, it was SO bad that the GOP heads had to kill it before it went to Congress and got shot down by their own (Republican) party members making them an even bigger laughing stock then they already are. That’s how bad it was. They spent years moaning and bitching without spending a single 1 second of those 6 years to actually come up with a solution – campaigned on it as the #1 priority without a plan – and when it was time they scribbled a half baked Republican version of Obamacare because “Who knew healthcare would be so complicated – Trump 2017”. Seriously – wtf kind of “Greatest American Healthcare Act” drops 80% of those it’s insuring?
2. “Obamacare is the Democrats fault”. The alternative is Trumpcare which you admit is bad. So you have 3 choices, Obamacare, Trumpcare, no-care. Which do you want? Republicans hold the White House AND Congress – they have full control of the Executive branch for 2 years and they couldn’t come up with something better because now they realized Obamacare (ACA) is actually pretty good. Stop blaming Democrats for something that has now been proven decent.
3. “Why should the federal government be in health care?” Because the old free market way sucked. Because most of the country couldn’t get insured. Because medical costs have skyrocketed way past standard inflation. Because every other free world country has proven with 20 years of data that it’s a better system for society. Because between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and insurers the greed was cumulative so all of them got richer while everyone got poorer.” Because unless you die suddenly in your 20s, EVERY SINGLE PERSON will eventually need medical insurance and the whole financial point of any insurance is the more people on it, the cheaper it becomes.
There is a direct correlation between the health of a nation and the health of it’s citizens. Obamacare is not bad – it is financially harder on small-mid size businesses – that’s all. The upside is way better than the downside. So when Trumpcare cut out small-mid sized businesses and the mandatory enrollment – guess what? No more money to fund it. So no more insurance for a lot of people including people who voted for Trump. Do you now begin to understand the magnitude of how dumb Republicans and especially Trump voters are?
The most important question in all of this is – why do you think Obamacare is a train wreck? I’d be willing to bet good money you couldn’t come up with a single intelligent argument supporting your position. I’m guessing you are just regurgitating angst to support your dislike for “the other party”. But in reality you have no idea what you are talking about.
TL;DR:
Republicans whined for 6 years, got full power, and could only come up with something worse because ACA is actually pretty good.
Entire free world has done it for 20 years – it works (proven) – we should do it too.
Republican Party/Trump/Trump voters don’t have real solutions – they only have complaints about Democrats.
To your point #2: the alternative is a free-er market. Allow insurance companies to cross state lines to create pools of customers–the more in the pool, the cheaper the premiums. Get some tort reform so the liability insurance health providers like doctors pay for is cheaper. Allow people to decide what they want to have coverage for: does a 60-something couple need maternity coverage? Does a single man? Does a single women need men’s health care? Do not keep insurance tied to employers–allow people to keep the same insurance even if they switch jobs.
As to Obamacare being a train wreck: the insurance I had pre-Obamacare worked well and was affordable. As I mentioned in another response, since Obamacare, my insurance premiums have gone up and coverage has gone down. And many people have had to drop insurance in the Obamacare days because they could no longer afford it.
Insurance companies already cross state lines. There’s a United Healthcare in every state or nearly so. Same for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. What makes the difference is each state has a board which dictates policies and the companies just tweak their policies accordingly.
By creating one type of medical coverage that is consistent across the board, it not only helps reduce costs, it eliminated coverage for people seeking lesser policies that when it came time to use them, found out it covered nothing. Do you want to return where it was okay for insurance companies to scam you?
Tort reform? Really? Doesn’t lower premiums, facts prove that. Check any state that has enacted tort reform and you will see premiums have gone up, sometimes even higher than those without. Besides, what is the value of your life? If you get injured and incur a lifetime of medical needs, do you think $250,000 will cover it?
Only 3% have been affected by higher premiums. Many have had their subsidies increased and haven’t felt the increase. However, as mentioned before, single-payer reduces overall medical costs and thus would reduce health care costs. As of now, there are no standards for costs in the medical industry. A cancer treatment in New York will be dramatically different than the exact same treatment in a smaller rural town in the midwest, (single-payer would change that). Did your coverage really get reduced or did your deductibles increase? Because if it’s the former, there is a minimal essential coverage that is the baseline for ACA. If it’s the latter, a lot of the blame goes to the GOP for eliminating the risk corridors.
Again, the amount of people who had to drop health care coverage is minimal. For one, if their income qualified them, they could get subsidies, two, if their state refused the additional money from the feds then they got affected. So if your state has a GOP governor, you can most likely blame him/her for refusing free money to help out their state’s population. The ACA was designed to make it easier, but the GOP decided to play politics and used citizens as pawns for their agenda.
As was mentioned in another comment, most people have little to no understanding of how insurance really works and just blame the wrong reasons for the problems. http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts/
WOW. The only reason I posted this was because of the line “… when Obama explodes”.
I guess I’m still stuck with a 5th grade mentality.
I missed that. And I agree, that was funny.
I am in 5th grade with you, Jonco.
Jonco I will always visit the site but political stuff has made it not so fun
To me the text was just funny. It wasn’t about politics. But then, that’s my opinion.
Funny, isn’t it. The Republican congress voted 50+ times during the Obama administration to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act, knowing full well that their bill would be vetoed. They risked nothing; it was only for show. Now when they actually have full control of the government, they can’t write a decent bill that will get enough votes in the House to pass.
The House couldn’t get the votes they needed because the bill was so bad, they couldn’t get enough votes because it wasn’t bad enough.
Understand that the Tea Party conservatives won’t vote for it because they are beholden to the Kochs, who are die hard Libertarians who believe the government must be 100% out of everything except defense. This is why they are working so hard to rewrite the Constitution. And they are just a few states short of doing it. https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Erg… forget to add something and your edit feature is gone.
As it is, Trump is going to wait it out and let Obamacare collapse. It may or may not, but when Rubio and others removed the risk corridors, many of the insurance companies pulled out and/or raised their rates. http://www.healthaffairs.org/healthpolicybriefs/brief.php?brief_id=118
While the replacement bill was bad, Obamacare is completely the Democrats’ fault; only they voted for that train wreck.
But the real question is: why should the federal government be in health care?
Why should the federal government be in health care? The same reason government is involved in education, infrastructure, law enforcement, and defense; because it is too big for individuals to handle, and only by pooling our resources can we take care of those who need it. The same arguments were made against Medicare, but it works well.
“why should the federal government be in health care?”
Constitutionally: it provides for the common welfare. Plus a person with a communicable disease threatens the life of others if that carrier is unable to get treatment because they have no insurance.
Logically: if a pandemic occurs, it benefits the nation that medical care is available to help curtail any further spread of the disease than necessary—this runs both along national defense (if pathogen is terrorist spread) and politically astute with the idea being that the government exists to protect the people.
Economically: it makes sense as it would reduce auto insurance rates since medical would no longer be needed; it would reduce labor costs because employers would no longer need to pay into employee insurance plus it would eliminate the need for workman’s comp, plus it incentivizes companies to build factories here because the cost of insurance is no longer factored into the cost of a product.
Also economically, with single-payer, it allows for negotiating lower health care and prescription costs and would save taxpayers $500 billion a year.
If they were worried about someone without insurance having a communicable disease, then why is there not jail time for not having health insurance? Instead, the penalty is taken out of any potential tax return.
Single payer? What has the federal government gotten involved with and made it better and/or more economical/cheaper? I use private health insurance and every year with Obamacare, my premiums have gone up (up $400/month this year over last year) and coverage has gone down–and co-pays have gone up.
“If they were worried about someone without insurance having a communicable disease, then why is there not jail time for not having health insurance?”
How in the world would that work? You can be without insurance today and be healthy today and come tomorrow have TB. The Minority Report is a fictional movie, it doesn’t exist in reality. Your premise is without merit.
“What has the federal government gotten involved with and made it better and/or more economical/cheaper?”
Mail service. The VA. Social Security. Medicare. MedicAid. The military. The Interstate highway system. Federal Deposit Insurance. The GI Bill. Federal Housing Authority. Consumer Protection.
All programs work on a low overhead (because profit is not a motivation, thus cheaper) and any of the false talking points you wish to use on any of them are just that—false. For example, for every one negative story about the VA, you will find 50+ who love it. There’s no pleasing everybody, especially conservatives who listen to hate TV/radio.
“I use private health insurance and every year with Obamacare, my premiums have gone up (up $400/month this year over last year) and coverage has gone down–and co-pays have gone up.”
There is a baseline of coverage in the ACA where coverage cannot go below. You opted for a premium coverage that is better than the basic. Therefore, you weren’t originally buying into ObamaCare. As for co-pays and deductibles, you can thank the GOP for eliminating the risk corridors which were intended to keep rates from increasing at any substantial rate.
Ok I will clear up several things.
1. The replacement bill was not just bad, it was SO bad that the GOP heads had to kill it before it went to Congress and got shot down by their own (Republican) party members making them an even bigger laughing stock then they already are. That’s how bad it was. They spent years moaning and bitching without spending a single 1 second of those 6 years to actually come up with a solution – campaigned on it as the #1 priority without a plan – and when it was time they scribbled a half baked Republican version of Obamacare because “Who knew healthcare would be so complicated – Trump 2017”. Seriously – wtf kind of “Greatest American Healthcare Act” drops 80% of those it’s insuring?
2. “Obamacare is the Democrats fault”. The alternative is Trumpcare which you admit is bad. So you have 3 choices, Obamacare, Trumpcare, no-care. Which do you want? Republicans hold the White House AND Congress – they have full control of the Executive branch for 2 years and they couldn’t come up with something better because now they realized Obamacare (ACA) is actually pretty good. Stop blaming Democrats for something that has now been proven decent.
3. “Why should the federal government be in health care?” Because the old free market way sucked. Because most of the country couldn’t get insured. Because medical costs have skyrocketed way past standard inflation. Because every other free world country has proven with 20 years of data that it’s a better system for society. Because between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and insurers the greed was cumulative so all of them got richer while everyone got poorer.” Because unless you die suddenly in your 20s, EVERY SINGLE PERSON will eventually need medical insurance and the whole financial point of any insurance is the more people on it, the cheaper it becomes.
There is a direct correlation between the health of a nation and the health of it’s citizens. Obamacare is not bad – it is financially harder on small-mid size businesses – that’s all. The upside is way better than the downside. So when Trumpcare cut out small-mid sized businesses and the mandatory enrollment – guess what? No more money to fund it. So no more insurance for a lot of people including people who voted for Trump. Do you now begin to understand the magnitude of how dumb Republicans and especially Trump voters are?
The most important question in all of this is – why do you think Obamacare is a train wreck? I’d be willing to bet good money you couldn’t come up with a single intelligent argument supporting your position. I’m guessing you are just regurgitating angst to support your dislike for “the other party”. But in reality you have no idea what you are talking about.
TL;DR:
Republicans whined for 6 years, got full power, and could only come up with something worse because ACA is actually pretty good.
Entire free world has done it for 20 years – it works (proven) – we should do it too.
Republican Party/Trump/Trump voters don’t have real solutions – they only have complaints about Democrats.
To your point #2: the alternative is a free-er market. Allow insurance companies to cross state lines to create pools of customers–the more in the pool, the cheaper the premiums. Get some tort reform so the liability insurance health providers like doctors pay for is cheaper. Allow people to decide what they want to have coverage for: does a 60-something couple need maternity coverage? Does a single man? Does a single women need men’s health care? Do not keep insurance tied to employers–allow people to keep the same insurance even if they switch jobs.
As to Obamacare being a train wreck: the insurance I had pre-Obamacare worked well and was affordable. As I mentioned in another response, since Obamacare, my insurance premiums have gone up and coverage has gone down. And many people have had to drop insurance in the Obamacare days because they could no longer afford it.
Insurance companies already cross state lines. There’s a United Healthcare in every state or nearly so. Same for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. What makes the difference is each state has a board which dictates policies and the companies just tweak their policies accordingly.
By creating one type of medical coverage that is consistent across the board, it not only helps reduce costs, it eliminated coverage for people seeking lesser policies that when it came time to use them, found out it covered nothing. Do you want to return where it was okay for insurance companies to scam you?
Tort reform? Really? Doesn’t lower premiums, facts prove that. Check any state that has enacted tort reform and you will see premiums have gone up, sometimes even higher than those without. Besides, what is the value of your life? If you get injured and incur a lifetime of medical needs, do you think $250,000 will cover it?
Only 3% have been affected by higher premiums. Many have had their subsidies increased and haven’t felt the increase. However, as mentioned before, single-payer reduces overall medical costs and thus would reduce health care costs. As of now, there are no standards for costs in the medical industry. A cancer treatment in New York will be dramatically different than the exact same treatment in a smaller rural town in the midwest, (single-payer would change that). Did your coverage really get reduced or did your deductibles increase? Because if it’s the former, there is a minimal essential coverage that is the baseline for ACA. If it’s the latter, a lot of the blame goes to the GOP for eliminating the risk corridors.
Again, the amount of people who had to drop health care coverage is minimal. For one, if their income qualified them, they could get subsidies, two, if their state refused the additional money from the feds then they got affected. So if your state has a GOP governor, you can most likely blame him/her for refusing free money to help out their state’s population. The ACA was designed to make it easier, but the GOP decided to play politics and used citizens as pawns for their agenda.
As was mentioned in another comment, most people have little to no understanding of how insurance really works and just blame the wrong reasons for the problems.
http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts/
WOW. The only reason I posted this was because of the line “… when Obama explodes”.
I guess I’m still stuck with a 5th grade mentality.
I missed that. And I agree, that was funny.
I am in 5th grade with you, Jonco.
Jonco I will always visit the site but political stuff has made it not so fun
To me the text was just funny. It wasn’t about politics. But then, that’s my opinion.
Funny, isn’t it. The Republican congress voted 50+ times during the Obama administration to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act, knowing full well that their bill would be vetoed. They risked nothing; it was only for show. Now when they actually have full control of the government, they can’t write a decent bill that will get enough votes in the House to pass.
The House couldn’t get the votes they needed because the bill was so bad, they couldn’t get enough votes because it wasn’t bad enough.
Understand that the Tea Party conservatives won’t vote for it because they are beholden to the Kochs, who are die hard Libertarians who believe the government must be 100% out of everything except defense. This is why they are working so hard to rewrite the Constitution. And they are just a few states short of doing it. https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Erg… forget to add something and your edit feature is gone.
As it is, Trump is going to wait it out and let Obamacare collapse. It may or may not, but when Rubio and others removed the risk corridors, many of the insurance companies pulled out and/or raised their rates.
http://www.healthaffairs.org/healthpolicybriefs/brief.php?brief_id=118