There are those people who are gay. There are those who hate people who are gay. Let’s suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the number of people who are gay and those people who hate gay people, are equal in number. With me?
Now, let us suppose there are people who are supernaturally indifferent to politics of any sort and do not care if we burn witches at the stake or allow them their own religion as long as they don’t turn me into a newt. Let’s suppose those people outnumber all the rest of the groups combined. They do, actually. The people who just plain don’t give a damn outnumber us all.
But suppose you had a group of people who were gay friendly and another group who didn’t outright hate gays but they wouldn’t boycott a restaurant that refused to serve gays. Let us suppose that these two groups were equal and also, let us suppose while fewer in number than the Don’t Give A Damn Crowd, both of these groups were twice as big as the Gays and the Haters.
Here’s where this all ends up and why:
You have two restaurants in town with similar menus. One of them posts a sign that says, “No Homos Here” and the other that posts no sign at all. The Haters will go there and the Apathetic might go there, and even those who are just Slight Haters will go there, but the Gays aren’t about to and those who support them aren’t going either.
It all shakes out about even, right?
But the thing is the Gays wouldn’t be caught dead trying to slip into a restaurant that hates them. And those who support them aren’t either. Yet at the same time, the Haters and the Slight Haters, do not have a real reason NOT to go to the other restaurant that posts no signs at all.
And because no one likes to eat at the same place all the time, people will frequent other places, unless, of course, they have a reason not to go there ever.
More than anything else, math is going to kill off this thing in Arizona long before morality ever gets a lick in, no pun intended. Moreover, there are a lot of people, like myself, who grew up in a society where there were places some people were not allow to eat, places some people were not allowed to drink from a certain public water fountain, and quite frankly, I haven’t seen anything from that era I would like to relive.
I have never been in a restaurant in my whole life and suddenly looked around and wondered if there might possibly be someone who was gay there. If I did look up and suddenly realized I was the only straight person in the room, I don’t think it would really bother me. Wouldn’t this mean if a single woman wandered in I would have a better chance at getting a date?
Can someone who claims to be a Nazi refuse to serve Jews? Can someone who quotes the bible in support of racism refuse to serve ________(fill in the blank here, see how it feels when it is you) Can someone refuse to serve Muslims because they aren’t of the same religion as ____?
I’ve lived this before. I’m telling you straight up, no pun intended, you aren’t going to like it.
So really, how do you think this thing is going to play out?
Mike writes regularly at his site: The Hickory Head Hermit
Opinions expressed in this article are not necessarily those of the management of this site.
28 thoughts on “Friday Firesmith – The Sins of Arizona”
I think it has already played out, but in any case it appears that Arizona has some arch conservatives in its state legislature willing to propose all sorts of wacky laws, as well as some idiots that will vote in favor of whatever is put up for a vote. Then they wait for the rest of the country to tell them that they are idiots and they get all apologetic for their actions.
It gets pretty hot in AZ, as it does here in Florida, so perhaps that explains the wackiness in both places.
They haven’t started hunting people in Arizona yet, or at least they are arresting people for it yet, Grog.
Damn, I wish I hadn’t thought about that last part.
Actually they do hunt people in AZ. The Minute Men sit on the boarder and shot people trying to cross. I knew a guy from NC that was bringing his family to AZ on Vacation to do sit on lawn chairs with their guns and watch the boarder. It is just not all over the news.
Simple rule in life: Treat everyone with equality and respect.
Why are rules needed beyond that?
I like that, Woohoo. Could you run for president now?
If your religion makes you so uptight that you can’t handle a gay customer (and how would you even know?), then perhaps you should consider a career change that doesn’t involve dealing with the public.
Ron, there were a lot of white store owners in the 60’s that discovered that money is green. I suspect there will be a lot of people who discover that a dollar swings both ways.
Ron – just as a woman’s body has a way of preventing pregnancy during a rape, a God Fearing Christian just KNOWS who is a sinner and who is not. (Eyes rolling).
Besides a religious person does not needs facts to make an accusation; Rumor, speculation, fear, here say, appearance, is good enough.
“…and quite frankly, I haven’t seen anything from that era I would like to relive.”
I agree, except my younger, ache&pain-free, body. ;o)
Yeah, I would like some of that back, too, Bruce.
Who is going to protect the businesses from the militants / activists?
When they have conquered the business world, and it looks like they have, who will protect the schools?
When they have conquered the schools, and it looks like they have, who will protect the churches and mosques?
When they silence the speech, and the religion, who will protect YOU ?
George, uh, what are you talking about?
Grumpy! Is that you??????
I have no idea either.
I have always wondered who “they” are…
Ahh yes, the Thumpers. Those who look down on the masses and judge from on high.
I’d rather have freedom FROM religion.
If they are going to quote the Bible and try to make laws accordingly, they need to study quite a bit harder. I wonder if any of them have a daughter for sale, I was needing a maid and I sure would like to get rid of these goats.
Goats rock, Chick.
They make great cheese.
They make great lawnmowers too. (I don’t really have any goats)
Damn, I was hoping you would loan me a few for my lawn.
It’s interesting to note that there have been several occurrences of the ones who preached most about anti-gay stuff who were caught having homosexual liaisons of some sort.
Yeah, Ray, that is pretty common.
First off I don’t hate gays in the least, so don’t do the same thing as a hater and lump me into some group. My question is maybe devils advocate. If their business is incorporated, then yes, they have no right to exclude anyone. However, if they aren’t, that means the tax ID for the business is the owners SSN, therefore the business and everything about it is his/her personal property. So, in that respect it becomes difficult. I don’t have to let anyone into my house that I don’t want to, right? What if a gay business wanted to refuse straights? What if a black business wanted to exclude whites? What if a men’s bowling league, didn’t want women? What if a bar wanted to allow smoking? I think there has to be some protection for people that wish to surround themselves with the people they choose, right or wrong, as long as it isn’t hurting anyone. I mean would you feel wrong about excluding racists or homophobes? Although, if a business is incorporated then it becomes it’s own entity who’s rules are decided by the government. I’m just trying to add to the discussion.
Galen, you are confused about running a public business and having private rights. If you open a business to the public you’ve done just that. Everyone is invited. Here in The South, people got around that by privatizing schools, swimming pools, and that sort of thing so you had to be a member of the club to use the facilities. If a restaurant wants to serve just certain people then they have to establish they aren’t open to the public. Best of luck with that one.
I don’t know if you remember it or not but the Nazis won the right to march in a Jewish neighborhood in Skokie Illinois. A lot of people didn’t like it but they had that right to do it.
Freedom isn’t easy. It’s an advanced form of civilization. The balance between individuals’ right versus the common good is something vexing and problematic but it has to be or it wouldn’t be worth it.
Forty-five years ago I would have never dreamed of sitting in a restaurant with blacks eating at the same table. We would have all been killed for it.
Ten years ago I never thought we would have a black president. This one in particular, eh.
I’ll say this again, and again, if I have to; I’ve lived in a society that was segregated. I am not going to live through it again if I can help it. To disallow a person’s right is to begin the slippery slope towards separate but equal again.
I’m not interested in that.
I did not like it last time.
Regarding the march in Skokie: They did indeed win the right to do so, but if I recall correctly, they ended up not doing it.
I thought they won the battle and lost the war, myself, Ray.
Merely despised before they took it to court I think public backlash from the case made many of them realize how hated they are.
They are here, they are queer.
They walk amongst us.
Can we just get over it and start dealing with issues that actually matter?
I’m really getting tired of this subject, time for homophobes to go into the closet.
I simply am not able to understand what is the big problem so many people have with gays. Oh, wait a minute, I do understand. It is because some people, a few thousand years or so ago, said that a man loving another man was going to send them both to a fiery pit, where they would face horrible torture, for the rest of eternity. Well, we can’t allow that to happen, can we? So, because we love our fellow man, we are going to persecute gays, to try to save them from this horrible fate. Remember, though, that back then, the world was considered to be flat, as well as being the center of the entire universe. If you went too far from home, you would risk falling off the edge. Sounds a bit silly now, don’t it? Yet, we still cling to the belief that homosexuals are sinners. The only people who need to concern themselves with someone else’s sexual orientation are those who are considering actually having sex with them.
I think George Takei is going to make a difference, though. He is asking gays to boycott the entire state, to send the message to them, through their wallets, that this legislation is unacceptable. Due to his being highly regarded in the gay community, I think he is going to have a lot of success with this.
Arizona is going to take a public beating on this one via social media. Takei, who has been a huge sensation on FB may prove to be a very valid force to be reckoned with.
Frankly, most of the same-sex couples I know have been together longer than the opposite sex couples I know. They also seem to have a better way of dealing with whatever problem or disagreements arise.
I know a lesbian couple who met in basic training, one of them did 10 years in the Army then got out. The other one retired after 26 years. She’s been retired about 9 or 10 years. They have a child. Oh they didn’t adopt, one of them took one for the team, she told me it was the most disgusting thing she’s done. They are great parents, they are a great couple. They have a beautiful home. It’s in the country, it’s enough to make you jealous.
I’d rather see them as parents and as a couple than some of the fuckwits they allow to get married and divorced, and married and divorced, and have how many baby daddy’s. There is no color to love, there is no gender to love, you love who you love. Why should you not be allowed to make a happy home?
I guess if all these people are going to Hell, it will be a much more interesting place than their “Heaven.” Since I believe in neither one, I’m a shoe in for Hell. If that’s where all the scientists and gays are going and quite a few of the great authors, I’d rather be there anyhow.
As a formerly married man I can tell you there wasn’t much sanctity in my marriage. As convenient as it would to blame lesbians for this I think there is someone a little closer to home at fault.
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