78 thoughts on “Tax exemptions for churches”

  1. USA annual military expenditure $711 billion. Start there.

    Or we could go to church and pray to God to end war, suffering and oppression.

  2. People use this argument against the Church all the time. But it isn’t very well thought-out, because the Church does more to help the needy and impoverished than any other organization, and is a constant aid to those in need. If they put all their money toward that, the Churches would suffer and die out, and then the whole world would be in chaos.
    Besides, it is only right that Churches have certain fine things, because it is the house of God.

    Also, the money argument could be used against the Mars rover. You don’t hear Christians everywhere saying “Why doesn’t Nasa give all that money to poor kids in Africa?”
    Because money is being used very well by Nasa! (But not nearly as well as it is being used by the Church.)

  3. If you think the US government would use that 70 billion dollars on feeding hungry you’re a fool. It would be flushed down the toilet with waste and bureaucracy in an instant.

    Also, not taxing something isn’t lost revenue. We could also tax everyone 100% of what they make, it isn’t lost revenue for the country because we don’t.

    • So, then you’re OK with the church not paying any taxes but having gold crosses and whatnot? I know there are some smaller churches that struggle to stay afloat, but I don’t think it’s fair that churches get off tax free.
      If someone gives me a donation of $20 I have to report it as income (and I do), so it only seems fair that a donation to the church be taxable income too.

      • Jonco, there is a huge difference between an individual and a church. You are (as far as any of us readers knows) keeping all money donated to you for yourself and doing little to nothing for others with it. There is nothing wrong with that, but personal income is much different than church income.

        You may disagree with how a church uses its money or the effectiveness of the money as it is spent, but using that as a basis for taxing churches doesn’t make much sense to me.

        Let’s talk about separation of church and state… Many, if not most, of your readers would be passionately supportive of keeping church and state separate. I include myself in that (even though I am a church goer). An argument could be made that we are not adequately keeping them separate if church donations are being taxed to pay for running the government and all of its programs, some of which religious citizens are morally opposed to. We are not welcome to bring our faith into the political arena and use our religious influence to change the government, yet you would have us pay for those same things and leave us no choice in the matter. As an individual, I pay taxes and as an individual I have the right to vote and have my representative made aware of my political views and how I wish him or her to vote. I do not believe that religious groups should try and wield political power in a corporate fashion and so I also feel it would be unfair to require us to corporately fund objectionable programs.

        The bottom line is that once the government begins taxing churches (and all religious bodies, i.e. mosques, synagogs, temples, etc.), they will have an immense amount of power over those entities. That kind of power is ripe for abuse and the First Amendment says Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. By donating money to a church I am expressing, in an imminently practical way, my religious beliefs. For the government to take part of the money I intend for religious expression and to instead spend on anything else, is a prohibition of religious freedom.

        You mentioned some churches having gold crosses and what not. Yes, I know it happens and won’t try to deny it. But would you really penalize all churches nationwide for such behavior? I have never attended or even been in a church like that and I have gone to church all of my life and in many states.

        I hope you will seriously consider what I have written.

        • Thanks Kev! Well said. I will add that the church is far more effective with every dollar they spend. If we gave government all that money instead, only a small fraction of it would make it to the public in need. Look at the schools sponsored and run by the Jesuits for example of how well they use every dollar.

        • I think you speak intelligently and have some good points and I’m all in favor of intelligent conversation here. I think it would be safe to say that most churches, businesses and most people probably handle finances better than the government. The government is a mess. We pretty much all agree with that. I don’t have an issue with how the church spends its money any more than you do about how I spend mine. I just don’t necessarily think it’s fair that every other entity has to pay taxes on their income except the church. Politics and religion are intertwined and if you believe that there is no religious influence being used in an effort to try and change government I think you’re mistaken.

          As for donations to me I do spend most of that on running the websites and prizes for contests I run.

          Thanks for commenting and thanks for reading B&P.

          • I do believe that politics and religion are intertwined. I am firmly convinced that there is a great deal of interplay. I also recognize that there are religious groups who are very focused on using their power and influence to directly change the government.

            What I meant to say is that I don’t feel that this is appropriate. It is my opinion that as an individual, it is impossible to separate out one’s faith and religious beliefs from their political beliefs. My faith directly and profoundly influences my politics. I believe that all citizens should take their civic responsibilities seriously and involve themselves in the political process. This of course includes religious people. I would not exclude anyone from that due to their religious beliefs or a lack of them (atheists). However, I do have a problem with corporations acting politically. I am using the word “corporations” in a more generic sense to include both business corporations and also religious corporations (churches, synagogs, mosques). Certainly, the Roman Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention are large and powerful entities. I am not comfortable with any corporation attempting to influence the government. As for churches or any type of religious organization, I believe that they should encourage their members to get involved politically (as all Americans should be) but to stop short of telling us how we should vote or whom we should vote for.

            In other words, I believe that the government should leave religion alone (no regulation, no taxation, no involvement) and I believe that religion should leave government alone (no attempt to directly influence it).

            I sincerely hope I didn’t offend with my comments regarding the income you receive via donations through the site. What you do with that money is totally your business and I do not mean to imply that you should not be allowed to spend it how you like.

            One question: If you are for taxing churches, are you for taxing all non-profit entities? Including charities?

            • I agree with most of what you said. I really haven’t given much thought to taxing charities or other non-profit organizations and I haven’t thought a whole lot about how taxing churches would work. As I said earlier it just seems unfair that churches can take in all that money and some spend it so foolishly and extravagantly without any taxation yet they take advantage of government services. That’s all! I know many churches, probably most churches do good community work, and I don’t have any problem with any of that. More power to them.

              We have a television evangelist that lives here in St. Louis in a compound that would rival many very rich executives’ estates. I really don’t know if she pays any taxes or not but I’d be pissed if I heard that she didn’t.

              I’m not as eloquent nor as educated as many of the readers here are and I have no problem with anyone having faith or being religious in whatever way serves them. I’m not anti-Catholic or anti-religion. Some of my relatives and best friends are Catholic. Some are other religions. I’m fine with them being that way if that’s what they want. Live and let live. I don’t have a problem with having In God We Trust on our money. I have no problem with singing God Bless America at baseball games or anywhere else. I have no problem with kids reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in school because it has “under God” in it. I’m not anti-religion. I just have some problems with some of it’s practices and things some people will do in or on its behalf. Live and let live.

              • the church is not taxes but the employees are most pastors are at 25% (self-employment rate) with no deductions except housing. and any gifts are also taxed as income. so if i gave my pastor a $10k car he would have to pay all the sales taxes and reg cost plus an additional 25% as income tax. would cost him in my state about $4k for the free car. hope this clears up a few more things for you.

      • Have you been to the former Soviet Union? In my last trip to Moscow, I visited the Tretyakov gallery which houses some of the finest art in the world. In examining some of the icons, I noticed patterns if small holes all over the icons. This is where the extravagant gold and jewels encrusted icon covers were held in place by nails. Lenin decided to strip all the churches of their wealth in 1921-22 to help finance his failing socialist system. Was it worth it? Just like every other socialist economy, there is never enough money and always enemies within the state. Stalin killed off more Kulaks by starvation in 1932-33 than Jews killed by Nazis.
        This reminds me of what Dennis Prager always says, the bigger the government the smaller the individual.
        If you really are worried about the small churches, kiss them good-bye if they tax exempt status. We will be left only with mega-churches, in the same way the tax code advantages big box stores to drive ma and pa stores out of existence.
        As far as donations are concerned, 501(c)3.

        • No, I’ve never been to the Soviet Union, but I’m sure it was quite interesting. My concern is for the smaller churches that struggle to stay afloat, but not the Catholic Church or other wealthy ministries that are reaping in the cash.

      • If someone gives me a donation of $20 I have to report it as income….

        Wrong. You only need to report it if you get more than $13,000 (for 2012) as a gift from any one person.

  4. When I entered the military in 1966 I had a tithe with a home town church, at my military pay of only $97 per month I could not continue to pay that tithe. What happened next seriously took me by surprise, that church sent me a bill for back tithes! During the height of the Viet Nam conflict! For a fact, I know that that church has spent thousands on new organs, remodeling, Pastoral trips, whatever, but has never spent a dime helping the community. The Jaycee’s and the Rotary Club do a much better job of that. By the way, by the time I got my discharge I was drawing the astounding amount of $250 per month and still didn’t have room to pay that old tithe.

  5. Yeah, thank goodness we’ve spent that $15 Trillion since the War on Poverty and the Great Society was started that hasn’t made any measurable difference in the poverty level. It only created and entrenched/dependent class of dimoCrap voters, looking for their next check or hand out.

    Just so happens to [almost] match the advertised National Debt of $16 Trillion. But lets start with the Military . . . . dopey lib logic 101.

    • it made a difference ,we have more now (deadbeats) getting handouts/welfare than when the great f****** society started…. oh thank you LBJ

    • “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and and not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.” — Dwight D. Eisenhower

      • Very clever there, AJW you’re quiet the sophist. Did you forget or are you holding in reserve the ole “Military Industrial Complex”? eh? I’ve got a better one for ya, from someone way smarter too . . . . “Only the dead have seen the end of war” – Plato

        Back when the General was making any of those arguments, there were almost zero “social welfare programs”, the only ones in existence were fdr’s. AND the United States just so happened to SAVE the entire world from anarchy, goose stepping and speaking German. Allow me to remind you that it was the U.S. Military who done that. We were yet to experience the pleasure of l…bj’s Great Society and the others yet to be added. Somehow everyone managed to survive.

        The social welfare net back then WAS the Religious Organizations that you and others are suggesting we take away their Tax Exemption Status [after destroying the Military]. Those organizations were the among the very first to PROVIDE . . . Soup Kitchens, Orphanages, Community Hospitals, Family Counseling and many other programs that the Gubermint has decided to play Robin Hood and happens to suck at doing.

        Just by coincidence this week a report was released that states that 100 Million individuals are receiving some kind of Social Welfare from the government. That is approximately ONE-THIRD of the population, here in the United States. Out of those numbers approximately 38% of “Illegal Immigrants” are receiving at least some of those disbursements. Food Stamps are now given to 46 Million people, their children probably receive at least 1 or more meals at school at the cost to the taxpayer.

        This is US Census Figures that DO NOT include Social Security or Medicare


        Wanna bet out of the 100 Million how many have more than one television, cable, internet, air conditioning, at least one car, a cell phone, at least one computer and probably sits in line for 2 or 3 days for the next gotta have electronic release at Apple or Best Buy?

        It would behoove people who like you who like to walk around in Rose Colored Glasses to put them down once in awhile, take a whiff and smell some reality. Without this Nations Defense Spending and Military the world would be a much more dangerous place, not only for we Americans but for a vast majority of the rest of the world. We get more BANG for our buck [pun intended] from Defense and Military Spending than we ever get from ANY Social Welfare Redistribution of Somebody Else’s Wealth. It has never worked and never will and $16 Trillion dollars later proves it.

        So please, spare me the the idiotic colloquy. It’s people like you who make this a very dangerous place to live and survive in.

  6. the problem is these discussions always go to big extremes lets bring it down a little.

    my church runs about 120 people we feed 40 to 50 people each Monday at our free community dinner, and hand out 5 to 15 food baskets each week, we help with peoples utility payments, and gas to get to work. we where debt free when the economy tanked so we are in a good place to help people that are hurting.

    this is the way the church should act.

    I would put our efficiency of income to dollars spent on helping those in need. vs. the governments any day of the week.

  7. The churches of various faiths here in my town have formed a kind of coalition, and combine to collect food and household supplies, and feed the needy several days @ week, rotating between their bldgs.

    At least one of the churches also has a pet food bank… they collect pet food and supplies (like kitty litter etc) and give them to area residents who are struggling to feed family AND pets.

    I’m not a religious person, but I give to these charities with the knowledge that 100% of my donations go to my hometown neighbors who are actually in need.

    • That’s great DJ. Our group has worked at a local church serving food to the homeless. I find that more fulfilling and I know it’s helping someone directly rather than sending a check to some charity where an unknown portion covers “operating expenses”… whatever that means.

    • I give thousands to churchs every year and as DJ said they also have homes to help the needy and those with additions and I know my money is helping those who are in need

  8. I’m not religious myself, at all, but I’d rather hear about a small church doing good for the community on small contributions and hard work, than a larger, greedy church. To my knowledge, and in my experience, the Catholic Church has always been greedy and judgemental. I’ll give an example.
    My friend wanted to have her daughter baptised or christened or whatever it is the Catholics do so she went to her priest about it. She went to church every Sunday and had already had the same guy do the same ceremony on her son who was two years older.(Her daughter was a baby at the time.)He told her he recognized her from attending church and all, but he would have to check and see if he was able to perform the ceremony for her, he was going to have to check and see how much she had donated in the past year. She asked him if she was buying her daughter’s way into heaven. That’s when she stopped going to church as well.

    • I am a Catholic, and I never heard such an outlandish story. I suppose maybe it might be possible. I have attended a Catholic church now in 2 towns, the one back home from where I moved from, and the present one where I go now. When ever a priest was called you donated what you felt it was worth. This past March as my husband was dying I wanted the priest to come give him the Last Rites of the Church. I called and left a message at the church rectory on a Friday night, and the priest called me at 10:20 P.M. He said he would meet me at the hospital. I went to the hospital and met him and the priest gave him the Rites. I thanked him, but he did not even question that my husband was Catholic. I did not pay him for his services…only thanked him. Of course my husband passed away in a few days, and the priest said the services at the funeral. At that time I did give him a donation, as the priest had done me a favor by saying the services on his day off. There was no set fee on the donation. And another thing because my husband had been ill with cancer we hadn’t been to church in awhile. Even when we did go to church we gave what we could afford, there was no set fee every week or month. The only time there may have been a set fee is when we pledged a certain amount every month for the building fund or special fund for buying a new organ for the church.

      • I too am Catholic and I agree that the story doesn’t sound right. When my mother died, she had not been to services for several years due to her condition. I called the local church near her last residence and they agreed to do the funeral mass on short notice with no mention of any fees. When we had the mass, the church even provided a choir for the service. I asked the Priest afterwards what I owed for the mass. He said that the only thing that I should consider was a small donation to the choir fund for their help.

        • My aunt told me that when my uncle died (30+ years ago) that she had to “pay the priest” to hold a mass so he could go to heaven. I can’t remember how much she said, I remember it as being a substantial amount.

          • Now that’s something else I find hard to believe. No priest that I’ve ever known has charged anything like that. In 2002 my father passed away and he hadn’t been to church in over 60 yrs. But he was baptized a Catholic, and so I had a priest do his services. There were no questions asked by the priest or any requests for money. I voluntarily gave him $100 after the services. He said the services at the funeral home, and then we had to travel 7 miles to the cemetery where the priest also prayed over the grave. Even when my husband and I got married over 40 yrs. ago we only gave the priest $25. You give what you feel like giving, If that priest told your aunt that, then he must have wanted to line his pockets is all I can say.

            • That’s just the story I heard, I can’t vouch for it’s accuracy, but my aunt was never known to just make up lies.

    • Please, please, please tell me the name of that Catholic church that practiced ‘indulgence’. Martin Luther fought against this practice and in 1567, Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences. If your story is true, I myself would lead the protest to have the priest removed. I have not heard of a single Catholic church practicing indulgence and if this is true, it would create headlines from here to Rome.

        • I believe it roughly means ‘selling your services’ or trading rites for cash. Definitely a no-no as well it should be.

          • The priest is not selling his services. If you go out and have dinner you leave a tip if the waitress gives you good service don’t you? Same difference, as far as I can see.

            • Anne,
              You really need to study Martin Luther. I’m not asking you to read “Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgentiarum”, but you will learn how his disbelief in indulgences led to reform of the Catholic church.
              Paying for a service or mass is voluntary and kind. Paying to left a person go to heaven in indulgence.

              • It doesn’t make any difference to me what it says. You keep pushing it, but you have no concept about the Catholic church. I worked for a Lutheran couple, and every once in awhile the minister would drop into chat with them. The lady of the house always ended up giving him a check. Now, what do you call that? Plus the couple tithed an amount every 3 months to their church. I’m am not going back and read anything that happened back in the 1500’s or whenever. I know Martin Luther broke away from the church and that’s all I need to know. Just like I said before you have your beliefs and I have mind, and it will be hard to break my beliefs after 70 yrs. of being a Catholic.

            • “You keep pushing it, but you have no concept about the Catholic church.”

              I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, CCD, Jesuit schooling and so on. I also seem to know more about Catholic history, including Martin Luther and indulgences, which you had no knowledge of. But after all this, I have no concept of the Catholic church and you do.

              Wow! I succumb to your knowledge, wisdom and experience. You win!

              • What you fail to mention that years later after Luther broke away from the church, is that the church changed, but not it’s doctrine. My cousin was in the seminary, and he quit because he didn’t believe some of things he was being taught. But none the less he did return to the church eventually. Sorry if I upset you, but I know from the two practices of the churches I have gone to, I was never told that I had to give so much to the church in order to get to heaven.

              • “Sorry if I upset you, but I know from the two practices of the churches I have gone to, I was never told that I had to give so much to the church in order to get to heaven.”

                Not upset. I’m having trouble with your sentence structure on the remainder. Were you never told you have to give to go to heaven or were you not informed that you had to pay large indulgences? I have NEVER heard of indulgences in Oregon or any Catholic church, so based on my time in the church, I don’t believe a word you have said.

                If it is true, than please post names of priests and churches. By hiding this information, you are no better than priests who covered up pedophilia and Joe Paterno. By not posting names and places, you help continue a practice that may or may not still be happening. I would cite you a bible passage, but for you – PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

          • It can be thought of more as a “pardon” granted in return for a donation. I don’t see how it applies to the above comment from that1chick.

        • The public school system has a terrible record of removing problem teachers, but we keep shelling them hundreds of billions of dollars every year.

          • Sounds just like the government too. It seems that we as a society have a hard time getting rid of the bad apples. They’re everywhere.

        • They don’t remove the problem priests, they just relocate them.
          And my friend isn’t known for making up lies either. That whole ordeal turned my friend away from religion in general. That’s one thing we agree on we’re both anti-theist.

      • I went to St. Michael’s Church in Monroe, Michigan for 53 yrs. I was also taught by the nuns there for 8 yrs. We did have church envelopes for collection every Sunday, We could give any amount we felt like it, but you were not obligated to give. I was never taught by the nuns or anyone else that giving that money guaranteed me I was going to heaven. NEVER!!! Perhaps it depends on the Diocese that you are in, we were under the Diocese of Detroit. This is what I was taught growing up. I just don’t care to discuss this matter any further.

        • Andy from Beaverton…one final word on this subject…I suggest that you go to Wikipedia and read the article. Your way of thinking might have been true in the Middle Ages, but things changed after that. The article not only pertains to the Catholic religion, but also explains what is true in some of the other religions.

          Go to Wikipedia and type in “Indulgence.”

  9. Most large and insanely profitable FOR PROFIT organizations pay $0.00 in taxes . Why not make organizations that are for profit pay taxes before we bash *mostly* not-for-profit organizations?

    Also source on this statistic? Is that because churches don’t pay taxes or because people count deductions on donations to not for profits?

  10. My feelings on this is we would probably have a lot more money to feed our poor homeless people if we would quit giving money to other countries every time they have a disaster. How many countries help us out every time we have something that happens here in our country? I’ve have thought about this for a long time. We are always there for the other countries, but have very few that help us out. My feelings on NASA is we should keep the program, in the past look how many things they have learned being up in space, and new things we have the market in what they have discovered while being up there. And the churches do help as many as they can also. Our church has a food pantry which serves our county. Don’t make any difference if your a member of our church or not. Right now we have a lot of unemployed people. The pantry is funded by donations and this past Christmas fed 2800 families for the holiday. Plus we have churches offering a free meal every week. At Thanksgiving a man in the next community organizes a dinner open to anyone. Grocery stores, Eckrich, Wal-Mart and there are others too numerous to mention all donate for this occasion. The man feels that no one should be alone on that day. It is held at a Catholic church hall. He has been doing this for a number of years, and now his health is failing, but this past year he still felt it was his duty to do it. I hope someone will continue in his foot steps. There are angels that walk among us. Also I’m with Jonco, if your going to support a church do so in your local town, I’d rather help the local people out then someone in a far off country.

  11. Well, be still my heart. A controversial religious/governmental subject treated with civility and interesting polite commentary.

  12. I echo reverick315’s comments and in the spirit of the conversation my waning catholic guilt has kicked in and I must at some point soon and get some money together to give to jonco for my entertainment/procrastination tax…

  13. I don’t care much for church, or organized religion. However, it occurs to me that most of the people who donate to the church, do so with money that has already been taxed. If the church were to be taxed, wouldn’t that be ‘double taxation’? Also, if the church were to be taxed, wouldn’t that be grounds for the church to voice it’s opinion in government business? I say, “Leave the churches alone, and hope to hell they leave us alone”.

    • J-Bird, The Catholic churches that I have been a member of sent out a statement at the end of the year of the money you have contributed in during the year. It can be claimed on your income taxes along with any other tax-exempted organizations you have given to. The way I look at is I’m giving back to the Lord for what he has given me. Since I turned 65, I don’t claim it all on my income taxes anymore, as the Lord has continued to bless me in so many ways.

    • If your (already taxed money) is used to buy a car (or anything else), it’s taxed again…. and again… and again. We’d be lucky to only get taxed twice.

      • Your right there Jonco, One thing that gets me is the money we put into our savings has already been taxed, and then just because we earn zilch percentage nowadays in interest, we still have to claim it on our income taxes. Back in the 1970’s my Dad was building a plane from a kit. The State came along and told him he needed to pay taxes on it. He told them no as he paid tax for the kit when he bought it, and showed them the receipts. He didn’t pay the additional tax to the State. By the way, I thought our forefathers came to this country to get away from taxes? They’d certainly roll over in their graves now from all the taxes we pay out, that’s for sure.

      • True Richard, but even though I’ve been a Catholic all of my life, I don’t question others beliefs or religions. They can believe what they want to believe in, and I’ll believe in mine. The one thing that stands out though in my mind is that we are all striving for one thing. And that is to get to heaven. So matter what faith or whatever, as you long as you believe that’s all that matters. Amen

    • Goodness Tony, doesn’t everyone have a right to their opinion and freedom of speech. Sheesh, I don’t agree with ALL aspects of certain things and that’s my option.
      When I saw all the comments on this post, I thought oh boy, here we go. Everyone so far has been very respectful.

    • Gee if he were still here I’d ask him what makes him think I’m anti-Catholic? I don’t think I am. Oh well.

  14. Gosh, Jonco. I don’t want to give up on B&P (which, I enjoy very much, in spite of the religion bashing). But I reckon that’s how it’s got to be. Thank you for all of the guffaws. Best to you and your loved ones.

    • So you like 90%-95% of what’s on here but you’re going to give it all up because my skepticism of many religious practices? Well, that’s your choice and I respect that. Best wishes to you also.

    • Jen,
      We have all voiced OUR opinions here, and Jonco has a right to voice his. I’m certainly am not going to judge him on his views on religion. Leave Jonco believe what he wants to believe. I’m going to repeat myself here, but it’s from another post, I posted over on Open Mic. If everyone thought the same way in this world, it certainly would be a boring world. We all have our own opinions, and just because we can’t agree the same way is what makes the world go around.

      • Well said, Anne. While I consider myself anti-theist, I have friends who are of all denominations. Catholic, Hindu, Christian Scientist, to name a few. I have a friend who is so devout she does not believe in dinosaurs, (I don’t know what she fills her car with) I may not believe the same things they do, but I respect their right to believe whatever they choose.

  15. I just glanced at all the posts, so someone might have already said this. Not only do many churches find themselves involved in works of charity (feeding the hungry, etc.), but the church also works very hard at strengthening families and helping parents raise their children to hold the values that can keep them off of the streets, off of drugs, and out of the kind of behavior that ultimately leaves them dependent on the government. Are we 100% effective? Hardly, but doing a much better job than the public sector at instilling positive values and ethics.

    • Fred, I am so glad you wrote that! Of course, some churches aren’t doing a good job of strengthening or equipping families, but many are and the benefit to society is impossible to quantify. I firmly believe that without the influence of our churches, society would have many, many more problems that would wind up costing the taxpayer much more than the government is “missing out” on by not taxing the churches.

  16. We don’t lose anything. The $71 billion does not belong to “us” or the government. The sentiment expressed in this is typical of those (primarily on the left) who somehow believe that everything and everyone belong to the State and that what we keep is through the beneficence of the State so that when the State allows citizens to keep a little more of the money they earned somehow it cost the State.

  17. Jonco in a thousand years every one will think the two main religions of U.S. for twentieth century Are Democrats and Republicans.
    I think that most of the so-called Christians will thow away there beliefs for a buck or control over some one else. I have no problems letting people believe what they want, just so long they let me believe what I want. But I have seen very little of that.

  18. What dingbat thought up this incredibly stupid bit? And what dingbat failed to stop it from being posted?

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