48 thoughts on “Hallowed Ground”

    • Hard to find the numbers. I tried several sources. Near as I can tell, between 50 & 150.
      Not counting the 19 hijackers of course.

  1. If, on September 12th, 2001, I had said, “Just wait. This country is so wacky that 10 years from now, we’ll have a mosque there.” anyone hearing it would have correctly thought that I was making a sarcastic quip on the craziness of liberals in this country.

    Nobody in their right mind would ever have thought that my statement would be prophetic.

  2. We wweren’t attacked by strippers or hamburgers of coffee. These are legitimate business’ that were there before 9/11. Whay are we asked to continually respect the rights of others when no one respects US anymore. How about just once we let the world know how we feel and to quote Nancy Reagan “just say no” This is not about religous freedom but about the sensitivity of those who have lost loved ones.

  3. Mosque, church, masjid, synagogue, Catholic cathedral; places of worship are places for healing and should be welcomed! People of all faiths, nationalities, and backgrounds were victims. Let the healing begin!

  4. maconga, all I know is it was several. My question to you is…..How many blew themselves up at the time of impact? Extremist Muslims are taught as children to hate the Westerners, You can’t win a war with that type of thinking. In my mind life should be cherished not suicidal.

  5. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/09/world/main6756107.shtml

    This is the story of the mosque in Germany frequented by 9/11 participants. Germany shut it down because it had become a rallying point for muslim extremists once again.

    “We have closed the mosque because it was a recruiting and meeting point for Islamic radicals who wanted to participate in so-called jihad or holy war,” said Frank Reschreiter, a spokesman for Hamburg’s state interior ministry.”

    How long would it take before the proposed mosque here becomes the same type of rallying point for terrorists? Even more so here; all but on top of the site of their “greatest triumph”.

  6. Insensitivity is not against the law. The best you can do is persuade the owners to do something else with the property. Islam did not attack the U.S. on 9/11. Al Qaeda did. It is because moderate Muslims (perhaps out of fear) have not been vocal enough in denouncing extremism that we find ourselves where we are today.

  7. I wonder how muslims would feel about Serbians building an Orthodox church in Srebrenicza to further… um… interfaith dialogue and tolerance.

  8. As a non-American, I’m appalled! I’m simple folk and I don’t intend on any hate filled speech about any religion, that is not my intention. But I am disgusted. There’s no healing here by doing this. What a kick in the nuts to everyone.

  9. This need to “promote healing” would sit slightly better with me, if immediately after the 9/11 attacks I had seen a few videos of muslim leaders forcefully condemning the attack as well as the attackers. Or if I had seen videos of muslims overseas grieving with us, then, and on the anniversaries of the attacks; instead of those I have seen of muslims cheering and dancing in the streets in celebration of what their brothers had accomplished.

  10. People seem to forget that this country was founded by people who were escaping religious intolerance…

    • We build Muslim prayer rooms in our airports, hospitals and clinics, on college campuses, in some federal bldgs. Public school systems around the US are considering whether to build Muslim prayer rooms in school buildings even as they ban any and all references to Christmas and Easter. Even at Guantanamo, they’re given Korans, prayer rugs, arrows pointing to Mecca, calls to prayer, and special meals.

      Remember…already almost 100 mosques within New York city limits…20 just in Manhattan…what an intolerant country we are.

    • I agree with you Brian. How quickly we forget our past.

      Its not fair to condemn all Muslims for what a few radicals did.

      BTW, I wanted to say TY to Jonco for posting this. I’m not asking him his political views or his own personal stance on the subject, its not my business, but it is a touchy subject and I felt it was brave of him to post it.

  11. The Gentlemen’s Club was there BEFORE 9/11, the nearest Mosque was 7 blocks away.

    Build your F-ing mosque somewhere else. Wash the street in pig’s blood and see what happens…..

  12. Islam didn’t attack us, it was radicals.

    Just like the Christian God is used to justify protests at soldiers funerals or white supremacy, the actions of these perverted minds should not dictate how we view things overall.

    And they aren’t building a mosque on hallowed ground. Bullshit. That ain’t hallowed ground. No one cared about it until fear and hate entered the equation. Besides, they are occupying a building that’s already there that was the old Burlington Coat Factory located 2 city blocks away. It’s not like they are building a new building in the midst of the World Trade Center. The way New York City is, no one would even notice the building 2 blocks away.

    What’s bigoted about all this is that 9 years later we still have no plan to help the 9/11 responders with their health care issues deriving from 9/11. We even had a huge blowup in congress over a bill earlier this month and no one cared. Don’t friggin lie to me and say that you care about 9/11 and the hallowed grounds. You didn’t even care about your brothers that are dying, 900 since 9/11, from ailments they obtained by responding to 9/11.

    Isn’t it the Christian God (or Jesus) that said whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me? Quit f’n trippin about a friggin mosque 2 blocks away when you can’t even take care of your brothers who are dying still from 9/11.

    Hypocrites.

  13. Ohh and btw, a Quinnipiac poll shows that 46% of residents in Manhattan approve of the mosque while only 36% oppose.

    • From CNN 8/17: “Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the mosque plan, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released last week. In terms of party affiliation, 54 percent of Democrats, 82 percent of Republicans and 70 percent of independents oppose the plan.”

      • You prove my point. People in the US don’t give a fuck about 9/11, but as soon as you instill fear and hatred with such words as Ground Zero, then people are all up in arms. My poll showed that people who actually LIVE in Manhattan don’t give a shit. People outside of the area who know nothing about what’s going on are the ones up in arms.

        • ALBANY – Opposition against the Ground Zero mosque has crept up to 63 percent as more New Yorkers chose sides in the debate, according to the latest Siena Research Institute poll.

          A similar survey two weeks ago found 61 percent disputed the proposed Cordoba House Islamic Community Center two blocks from the former World Trade Center site. Support for the project also inched up to 22 percent from 21 percent in the Aug. 5 poll.

  14. I just hope construction workers in NYC have the freedom to ‘just say no’ when asked to work on the mosque!

  15. At this point the only argument against this project is fear, specifically fear of Muslims, and that’s a bigoted, cowardly and completely indefensible position.

    Yet in all the talk no one word as to the state of mind of the people who committed the murders. We Americans are really and truly and honestly bad people for opposing the building of an Islam center at the scene of mass murder by people who were Islamics, yet nary a word in defense of the feelings of the people who lost loved ones there.

    Let me give you an example: What would you say about American had they opposed a shrine to Charles Manson at the house where Sharon Tate was murdered?

    What you would likely say is while the people who bought the land had the right to build that shrine there, yet it would be in exceedingly poor taste and inflammatory for them to do so.

    While those who oppose the building of the Islamic center may not totally understand the concept of free speech and why it applies in this case, please rest assured the people planning to build there know exactly how Americans feel, and what it means, and they still plan to build.

    It is a a premeditated act of disrespect. This is Fred Phelps on meth.

    You people call your religion one of peace and you want to show it, this would be a very good chance to build a house of worship a few miles away. Let’s say Iceland.

    If you’re looking for a fight, and you just cannot step away from all this without having one, I very humbly suggest this is a perfect way to start.

    Take Care,
    Mike

  16. Bella said it all in a ‘nutshell’>>>>>I’m appalled! I’m simple folk and I don’t intend on any hate filled speech about any religion, that is not my intention. But I am disgusted. There’s no healing here by doing this. What a kick in the nuts to everyone.

  17. That depends on your definition of evil, but yes it is, just like any organized religion.

    There will be no fight, just some random acts of vandalism and intimidation (picketing Friday prayers?) and then everyone will move on.

    It is not like building a shrine to Manson near Tate’s house. It is like building a church had Manson preached some distorted gospel.

  18. Do they have the right to build it there? Yes. That’s a matter of law. Do they have a good reason to build it there? No. That’s a matter of consideration. How far away should it be? I don’t know, but it should be out of the “shadow” of the WTC.

  19. legally, yes they could build there but why would they want to put themselves in a postion to be targeted? Are they going to be surprised when they are having to constantly repair and defend themselves, or are they going to use that as amunition against the rest of the city?

  20. A good friend once helped a woman through an emotional miscarriage. To this day, the woman refuses to see her friend because she reminds her of the feeling of that terrible day.

  21. My gosh people, it’s a place of worship among the hundreds, if not thousands, of buildings the same distance away from ground zero or less. Not a shrine to terrorism.

    • Tell me what kind of message they are trying to send? This is classic use of a tactic called “Let’s use their freedoms against them” They surely do have the right to put their mosque there, but I surely have the right to tell them to take a hike. I’m certain that many others will do that too. I hope that violence does not ensue because of this, but I can imagine that at the very least graffiti will.
      Right now they(whoever is building the mosque) are loving the fact that we hate it but can’t do anything about it without sacrificing the constitution.
      I think we should politely tell them that this is a disgrace, and we believe it is being used to goad us into a fight. Will it work? Of course not.
      What I’m really annoyed at is this is the work of those who are intolerant demanding tolerance. I’m not saying that all muslims are intolerant. But those who have this plan and those who support it are.
      If someone wanted to build a museum about Hitler across the street from the national Holocaust museum, they could, but I’ll bet it would receive resistance, just as this is.

  22. I wonder how many of those opposed to it who call themselves Christian would also be opposed to a Christian church being built on the site of a horrific terrorist attack perpetuated by Christians. I know, no such attack yet exists, but think about it.

    If 3,000 people died because a group of radical Christians blew them up, would you, if you are Christian, say, “Well, those attackers didn’t speak for all of Christianity. A church there would be about healing.”

    If you cannot say that, you shouldn’t be opposed to this one.

    I am opposed to it because I admit to having a strong negative reaction to all religion (Islam is worse than the other two monotheistic ones, though) and I do believe that, like ALL religions, it has more negatives than positives. I fail to see why NY needs more mosques or churches, period.

    On the other hand, it’s private property, something that Republicans (who are often disgustingly religious) claim to honor. How do you reconcile that?

    Is an athesit allowed to weigh in on the issue? Probably not. But I do believe a lot of Christians are hypocritical enough (well, they are hypocritical about tons of other stuff in their bible) to not see that their “reasoning” on this is flawed.

    And don’t say, “No Christian would blow up 3,000 people on American soil.” While most Xtian extremists rarely take out that many at a time, the idea of a mass killing at the hands of Xtians is not so far-fetched. Religion can definitely make people crazy.

    • Not everyone who opposes the mosque is Christian, or Republican.

      Is an athesit allowed to weigh in on the issue? Probably not. Actually, many have, both publicly and on this page.

  23. If Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance why does the Qur’an state in the beginning to “slay the infidels wherever you may find them”?
    And if you’re as tolerant as you say then why are gay people killed in Islamic countries?

    Islam is not a religion just because it is practiced by many, it’s a prolific sect, and a peaceful and tolerant Muslim is an oxymoron. It’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    (I’ve read the whole Qur’an, in case you wonder).

    • You may have read it, but I don’t think you paid much attention.

      and didn’t you know the Jesus said in the Bible

      “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

      or basic english

      “And as for those who were against me, who would not have me for their ruler, let them come here, and be put to death before me.”

      I have actually read the Bible.

  24. It would seem that in Obama’s world, it would be fine to build a Japanese memorial center next to Pearl Harbor, as long as it met zoning codes. I don’t think that he gets it…

  25. It is a “victory mosque”. Muslims have always done this through all of history. They conquer and then build their mosques over the conquered people’s former churches. It is their ultimate insult and ultimate demonstration of their power.

    • Yes, thats it, what the Ottoman empire did through its history applies to all muslims in the modern world. Wow, its amazing you spotted it.

  26. I wanna puke! I can’t believe that a Leader of one of the greatest countries in the world (Canada is the best…take that Duuuuude ;)) would do this to American citizen’s. It’s like getting shot in the balls, twice.

    • How is Obama doing anything to the citizens?

      FWIW, I bet Bush would have said the same thing.

      And as I recall, Bush has actually shown to be MORE complimentary of Muslims than Obama. No one cared back then and everyone praised him for this.

      Seriously, stop eating up the media hype and do yourself a favor and educate yourself about the project and who’s behind it. A couple simple internet searches would give you answers instead of just making assumptions…

      “Q: Who is behind the project?

      A: The project is called Park51 and is a product of the Cordoba Initiative, a nonprofit organization headed by the Muslim cleric Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan. The group aims to improve relations between Islam and the West by hosting leadership conferences for young American Muslims, organizing programs on Arab-Jewish relations, and empowering Muslim women.

      Rauf, 62, was born in Kuwait and educated in Malaysia, London and the U.S. He’s a prolific speaker and author of several books about the role of Islam in the modern world, including “What’s Right with Islam: A New Vision for Muslims and the West.” He serves as imam of a mosque in New York’s TriBeCa neighborhood, also not far from ground zero.

      The State Department recently sent Rauf on a religious outreach trip to the Middle East, one of several he has made on behalf of the U.S. government since 2007.”

      So as you can see, he’s clearly a terrorist. I mean, what’s this nonsense about empowering women and improving Arab-Jewish relationships?

      • Maybe you should read some of the comments here and try to understand the sensitivity OF not only the American public, but the world in general. Most of us were horrified watching CNN that day. The day that so many people died. We were also horrified when Major Nidal Malik Hasan yelled at the top of his lungs, “Allahu Akbar” before he shot his workmates in Fort Hood. All in the name of their religion. And many more cities have been terrorized too. The world has a reason to be skeptical. There apparently is a mosque a few blocks away that has been there for 40 years. That’s great. But why rub salt in a wound? Hollowed ground should be memorialized. Don’t tell me that WE don’t give a shit!!! Tell that to our boys and girls in Iraq and Afghanistan.

  27. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1128020
    A story about the not quite moderate leanings of imam Rauf

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243536/raufs-dawa-world-trade-center-rubble-andrew-c-mccarthy
    Rauf authored a book (title of english printed version) ‘What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America.’ it was published in Malaysia under the title ‘A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Da’wah in the Heart of America Post-9/11′. Da’wah is proselytism. He means to use that site. And he has said so, we want to “leverage,” that’s his word, “We want to leverage our location and proximity” to that site to bring people to Islam.

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